2 Ways to Solve the Illegal Immigration Problem
The problem with illegal immigrants is not that they are here using our resources. The problem is that they are using our resources without contributing anything. America as a country was completely built on immigrants. There is nothing wrong with the idea of immigration. The problem comes when people do it illegally. They use our hospitals and our schools without paying taxes or getting health insurance. Now for the surprise, we should continue to let them use our hospitals and schools. That is not only the best option, it is the only option if we are going to be the country we say we are. If we are to be that shining city on a hill, we have to treat everyone as we would want to be treated. That means providing health care when it is needed and education for everyone.
A friend of mine who is a teacher wrote this responding to the question, “how much, if any, resources should go to immigrants”:
Thinking about this topic has made me think about why I went into teaching. The simple answer is to help students learn. I know that this topic is a hot topic in many areas and rightfully so, but as a teacher my job is to help prepare the students I have in my classroom to be productive citizens. I might be naive in my belief but I really do not care where a child comes from, if they are in my room, I will teach them. I presently live in a state where there is no state income tax but a high sales tax. This means that everyone, including undocumented immigrants pay the same tax that helps fund everything. Resources are limited everywhere, but if we do not allow all students to learn, what will the consequences be further down the road. It will mean that we will have a high uneducated society. Unless Washington changes their stance, educators need to educate, and policy makers need to make policy.
Now this is very interesting, and there are a lot of different angles to take into account. As a teacher, you don’t really have much choice in the policy behind it, but he is definitely going at it from the right perspective in my opinion. I mean, the people in his classroom are here, and there is very little he can do about it. Also, the more highly educated immigrant is surely more useful to our society than an uneducated one. So from that standpoint he is exactly right. Also, he is right that the sales tax is a great idea. Using the fair tax in place of an income tax makes everyone contribute. From illegal immigrants to drug dealers, everyone pays. This is a good thing.
The problem is that illegal immigrants are taking from society without giving anything in return. Health care, education, and other areas of public service. Illegals aren’t paying for these things, yet they are receiving them. The thing is, we either have to stop them from coming in the first place, or we have to find a way to have them contribute. Otherwise, our systems are going to go bankrupt due to the people who are taking from it but not contributing to it.
This leaves two answers that completely contradict each other. On the one hand, we should provide health care and education for them because it is just the right thing to do. You take the Hippocratic oath and an illegal immigrants comes to the emergency room with his arm dangling; you give him some morphine and put it back in place. As a teacher, you should teach that kid how to do algebra no matter who he is or where he came from. On the other hand, this is still a problem that needs to be addressed. It simply cannot continue to infinity because we will run out of money.
Hospitals are going bankrupt because of this problem. Too many illegal immigrants are going to the emergency room with the sniffles. As far as teachers go, we have more students to teach and the same amount of money to go around. This means larger class sizes and more teachers. However, there isn’t any extra money for those teachers, so that means lower wages. Larger classes also mean a worse learning environment for your children. So now we are still talking about a less educated society, only now it is everyone. So this is certainly a problem. Now here is the solution.
Illegal Immigration Solutions
The solution has nothing to do with a fence or kicking them out; what we have to do is find a way that forces them to contribute. This seems like a silly thing to say, but it isn’t even that hard. Just make them pay for those things they are using now, and they aren’t leeches anymore. They are now productive members of our society. How do you accomplish all this? There are several simple things that can be done. First off, it isn’t the immigrants that are cheating Uncle Sam, it is the employers who hire them for the cheap labor. Start enforcing the laws we already have and punish companies that pay illegal immigrants under the table. This means that to find work, the person must be documented. It is as simple as that. Another solution that would make things easy is the sales tax that my friend mentioned. In Tennessee where we live, we have no state income tax. This means that any illegal immigrant here pays the same taxes as I do. If we did this everywhere, illegal immigrants would no longer be a problem. They would contribute just as much to the system as they take out.
We should treat illegal immigrants exactly the way my friend described simply because it is the right thing to do. The problem is that it isn’t possible to do that forever without them contributing. The only ways to fix this are to make them leave, stop them from coming, or to make them contribute the same as everyone else. If you want to try both that’s fine, but it seems to me the simpler solution is to let them come if they want, but make them contribute. I suspect if we do that, all of a sudden it is less attractive to be an illegal immigrant. If we stop allowing them to leech, we will only attract the people who really want to be here. Those are the people we want here, and those are the people who will make positive contributions to our society.
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There is no doubt that ILLEGAL ALIENS have caused more problems than anyone could have ever imagined. These problems WILL NOT go away until each and every ILLEGAL ALIEN is out of this Country and back in their own country where they belong. What gives them the RIGHT to be here breaking our immigration laws? WHAT?
I believe it is up to the States to pass laws like Arizona, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Missouri and a few other States. If this happens, and it can, this time next year we will have something to be thankful for. Having our Country back and free of the slime that invaded this beautiful Country!
While I agree that they have caused more problems than we could have ever imagined, I think that it is a little harsh to call them slime. I agree, the laws against the employers that states like Arizona has implemented would solve the problem.
However, I still believe that this country was founded on immigrants. It is the best country in the world, and I can understand why people would want to be here. If we just make them contribute like everyone else does, there isn’t really a problem anymore.
There is a really easy way to fix the problem. Give a mandatory prison sentence to the people who hire the illegal aliens. Give Green Cards to any illegal and their family if they turn in an employer who hires them. The illegals are here to feed their families and better themselves. Demonizing them does nothing to fix the problem. Making the people who hire them illegally go to jail would do wonders to help the problem. Anyone who thinks that it would be extreme to do this, look at it this way; they are committing tax fraud. Lie about your taxes, you do time. Do not pay taxes, you go to jail. Hire someone and do not pay taxes on that individual, go to jail. It is the employers who are the problem.
Contribute nothing eh?
“The results are surprising. By focusing on the economic costs and benefits of legal and illegal immigration, Professor Hanson concludes that stemming illegal immigration would likely lead to a net
drain on the U.S. economy—a finding that calls into question many of the proposals to increase funding for border protection.”
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf
“They would contribute just as much to the system as they take out.”
Actually, no. The way that things work is that everyone puts in and only some take out. In fact, I think that part of the angst over this is that there are people who are getting more than their fair share. You see it also in terms like “welfare queen” from the Right end of the political spectrum. People are indignant that someone is trying to live off of the money they paid in.
If everyone took out only what you put in then you would be limited in your health care to just what you’ve paid in sales tax. So, if you’ve purchased say $10k in goods, and paid 10% tax on that you would only get $1k in medical services back. If, to use your analogy, your arm was dangling and it cost $3k to put it back then you’d have to either buy another $20k in taxable goods, or come up with $2k somewhere, or be stuck with a dangling arm.
That’s not how it works. One, there is no way to track who has paid how much into the system. Two, even if there were, attempts to make someone come up with the difference often fail because they use fake addresses (so immigration can’t find them). Once the arm is back on they’re never seen again. And three, doctor’s can’t generally choose who to treat and who to pass on based on cost. If there is a medical need they must treat the person in front of them.
The way it works is that everyone’s money goes into a pool and only those who need it take some out. Same with schools. Everyone pays for schools, but only those with kids get services in return. This is called redistribution.
So, you have to look at $’s of services received vs. $’s of tax paid to see if they are equal. Usually, there is an economic divide involved that exists whether citizen or immigrant. Poor people generally pay less into the system than they take out. Richer people generally pay more into the system than they take out. When you have a large increase of largely lower income people via an undocumented population, that is where the significant problems arise. Getting the tax level equal between immigrant and citizen will not change the economic divide problem.
In fact, most employers are given a SSN when they hire an illegal. The federal government, which btw gets nothing from sales taxes but also contributes to the same hospitals and schools that you say are funded by sales taxes, is sitting on ~$40 Billion in money that was collected under the wrong SSN. This is largely from work done by illegal immigrants using someone else’s SSN. So, it would seem that illegals *are*, by and large, being taxed correctly. We are just misappropriating the money. And yet we would still have the financial issues with services because they are using the highest cost services when they should be using the lower cost services. So, we would have to lower barriers to seeing lower cost professionals. But this would cost them money, either in health insurance premiums or out of pocket, rather than the government. Why would they do this if they not only increase their risk of getting caught, but also don’t have to? So, we see what we see now.
I agree that we need to force employers to do a better job verifying documentation, simply to reduce identity theft. Or, some sort of amnesty program would get them on the books, and make it easier to collect for excess services.
I also agree with the notion that helping them while they are here helps us in the long run. When they do go back, and many are going back because the market here is tanking, they are taking back skills and education that can be used to stimulate their own economies. Hopefully, they can get their own countries in order. The only way that the problem is ever going to get any better is if their countries aren’t the type of place where it’s worth the hassle to come here.
I agree that in general contributions vary greatly depending on the wealth of the person, poor generally taking more and rich giving more. However, for the most part illegals are not really paying anything. Some are using stolen SSN’s or whatever, but many are just being paid cash under the table. That way the employer avoids paying social security and medicare taxes as well.
I also realize that different taxes go towards different things, I was just pointing out that my state is run on a sales tax instead of an income tax, and this could potentially be done on a larger scale.
i have read all the above. some are rright some rae wrong. i used to live in AZ. the schools are horrible they speak spanish first and its mandatory to take a spanish clas. as these teachers KNOW** these kids are illegal..they still teach them. its bull. and the under the table paid illegal immagrnts…what a shame..they need to make thier own country better and not inflate ours..mexico can be a good place if they make it better. they shouldnt be allowd over here. all they have to do is take a dam test. thats it.
I have to say if we had a firm grip on our borders and word spread south that it was useless to try to get in here, that traffic would stop. THEN, and ONLY then, we could take steps to assimilate as taxpayers the ones who are already here.
I do not propose inhumanity, only sovereignty. No nation on earth pays so little attention to its borders as the USA. Other countries think we are fools, or else don’t even BELIEVE it’s as bad as it is. Heck, we don’t even ask for ID when people VOTE. I once told a German that, and he practically passed out.
electric fence at border!!
“Illegal” people in this country do in fact contribute very much to this country. They do pay social security, because, as John stated, they do provide fake social security numbers to their employers. They might even contribute more than a regular person would, because they cannot claim their taxes, so they will not get any tax money back. Also, many of the jobs they do are ones that the oh so mighty people of america would not normally do. Who would like to pay $10 for an apple? Or $20 for grapes?
Some of you said that the illegals should just go back and “fix” their country. It is not that simple at ALL. Mexico, for example, is run over with many types of corruption and currently is having many problems with the drug wars. Many good people try to fix the problems, sadly, many of them fail to succeed due to those same problems. Even if all the illegals returned to their own countries it is highly unlikely that they will contribute in any great way to fix this problem. The outcome would be that the US economy tanks and there is a shortage of work in other countries.
Some guy said about an electric fence at the border. Seriously? What type of messed up country would come down to such inhumanity? Another lady mentioned that what a person needed to do to become illegal was “just take a test.” If it was that simple millions of people would be doing it. Green cards are extremely hard to come accross, because each year there is over 9.1 million qualifyed people who apply, and only 50,000 people get it. Also, there are many countries from which people cannot apply, including Mexico, Brazil, Cananda, China, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Pakistan, Philippines, Peru, Poland, Russia, South Korea, United Kingdom, and Vietnam.
So now tell me, what is there to do about this problem? Amnesty seems like a plausible answer doesn’t it? The government would be receiving money for the fines the illegal immigrants would pay to become legal, and many issues would be solved. At that point, the US would need to help other countries build up their economies and help spread prosperity. This way, the amount of immigrants coming to this country would decrease. Having people wanting to come to this country is not a bad thing though, because that means this “land of opportunity” still has much more to offer than many other countries do.
i thin most of you here are racist people that dont even help this country if immigrants dont take those jobs that you lazy bumbs dont want to do who would do them!
@Eddie - most of the time they do not get fake social security numbers. they simply work for dishonest employers who also want to get out of paying payroll taxes. they get paid with cash under the table.
@Regie - right now we have millions of unemployed workers in this country. many of them would be happy to do the jobs illegal workers are doing. I personally spent three years roofing, which is one of the hardest jobs there is that many illegals are currently doing. please don’t call me racist or lazy because i am neither.
i agree with the person who said that the U.S. is basically all immigrants… well 1st off let me start with the fact that every illegal immigrant i have known pays all the taxes required by the state… and to say they used up more than they contribute would also be a lie… this is impossible to do when you do not meet the requirement of being a citizen in order to use some of these public services. Also, most mexican families (maybe even other races, i am not sure) refuse to see a doctor unless they have shown signs that the illness has become very serious, so i wouldn’t think that is a problem either, for what is the likelyhood that every illegal immigrant will get a serious illness? and as i said before, they dont even meet the requirements. I do agree that the irresponsible and even criminal ones should be sent away, but i believe this for everyone, even citizens. Also, for those who say they should be sent back, shame on you! many of these illegal immigrants came looking for a better future for their children, most of them just so happen to be citizens! These children have every right to be here with family and everyone they love altogether. Illegals leave because Mexico, although a very beautiful place, is a corrupt place with an even more corrupt government. would you go and fix it for them, since it is so easy? Do you mean to tell me that if you were in the same position, you would stay there? See this is what really gets to me, so many people judge and criticize those when they have rarely suffered a day in their life, when they never had to worry about the complications brought upon the lives of their families, they judge without really thinking about it, without thinking what they would have done if they were in those situations. oh, how i would love if those type of people can switch lives with the others for just one day! Lastly, for those who think its so easy to obtain citizenship? think again, not only can obtaining it be very expensivie, but usually it needs to be done through marraige or you actually have to be related to a citizen. i have no idea what you must do to gain residency but i do know that those are requirements for citizenship. I strongly believe in what our declarations of independence says, all men or people are created equal,whether they are citizens or not… but then again we live in a world of hypocricy so i shouldnt be surprised.
@sue le doundrans
First of all that test is not as easy at it seems you because its easy for you but if you would take a test were what you saw was strange and you had no idea what the hell you were reading then you would understand yeah its bad but if the govt gave working permits Im sure that once they made money they would leave the reason they stay is because if they go back they can’t come back so if they had a chance to work in the US for a certain time and go back trust me we wouldnt be having this problem.
I really hate hearing people talk trash and treat us like animals no wait less than that. No matter what we’ve done we are equals and I dont care about social status or race. Actually they went through alot to have an oppportunity to help families back in there countries get food water and shelter for them. Its so funny how no one stops to think that it is possible that you have and immigrant in your family tree making you a child of immigrants just like me? that maybe they were not trated badly because for instance indians are not violant and believe in helping others and pilgrims came to there land and using there resources but I never heard they were treated like crap because to them there were there brothers and sisters no matter how they looked. So if everyone would stop talking mess and seriously I would for some of you to try coming walking through the dessert and swimming the Rio Grande I bet it wouldnt be that easy…
i bet that americans would take the jobs that are filled by immigrants. for example, there are millions of illegals hired by contractors. hell, i’d do construction. if they could reform the immigration system it would help a lot. and i am not racist. but the immigrants that come to our countr should do so legally. the process may be difficult and requiring reform, but maybe if the US government sees the problem for what it is, theyll fix it.
@kid 1
I completely agree. There are so many people that would be willing to do those jobs. I am mostly angry at the employers that are being dishonest and the government for not enforcing the laws we already have. The immigrants are just like you and I, they are just trying to feed their families.
i think this is all BS because if it wasnt for immigrants this country will be sh!t.. all the mexicans work at the filds picking up the fruit so all of the other white trash could just go to the store and buy it.. other mexican immigrants go and clean up your yard, or they go clean your house because the Americans are LAZY to clean there own house.. if this country wount have immigrants it would be the suckiest country. thats my opinion.. and YES im proud to be MEXICAN and not a white trash that dosnt know how to even know how to heat up a tortilla or make food food they just go to McDonals or other fast food resturant.
oh and the reason that immigrants are hired is because WE know how to work hard!!!!!!!!. this is for KID 1
@kid 1
your not hired becuase you dont knowhow to work .. and the immigrants (MEXICANS) DO know how to work THATS WHY WE ARE HIRED!!!!
@ANA
I’ve worked in construction before and there are lazy immigrants, good immigrants, lazy Americans and good Americans. The reason the immigrants get hired is because businesses want cheaper labor. When it is ILLEGAL it is in cash under the table meaning they don’t have to pay any taxes. The immigrants don’t pay taxes so they are also able to work for less. Don’t kid yourself into thinking you are the only person who knows how to work. It’s about the money just like everything else.